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Abortions
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 01/16/2013 22:26:40
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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(wow carnage lol)
The commandment says not to murder or harm with malice in intent. But isn't it playing god to let them live, and let them suffer? |
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| Moony |
Posted on 01/16/2013 22:28:43
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Member
Posts: 121
Joined: 06.01.13
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rawr wrote:
Has any one watched videos on how abortions are done? if not look it up. it is murder.
If you're referring to the "illegal backstreet methods" involving cleaning-grade vacuum cleaners or coathangers, then yes, that's disgusting and murder, not to mention dangerous to the mother.
Abortifacient drugs and/or specialised surgical vacuum equipment are not murder.
rawr wrote:
SIX: 'You shall not murder.' Commandment
"And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver." -- Leviticus 27:6
(My bible skills are lacking, but I believe this has to do with taxpaying, or something...)
The bible, or more accurately, God, does not place a value on infant life through pregnancy up to the age of a month old. In fact, the "one month" rule seems to come up quite a lot in that regard. Does that make abortion acceptable past that point, then?
Tu fui, ego eris.
Signature: Maribelle, Fire Emblem Awakening |
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| theatticus |
Posted on 01/16/2013 23:31:25
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Member
Posts: 86
Joined: 13.12.12
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Er, no, I think "aborting" a live baby under a month old is a little extreme. They probably did things rather differently back in the Jesus days.
Really, it's such a situational issue that I don't think there is one flawless solution for it. It depends on a large number of factors, such as the quality of life after birth or the mother's ability to care for him/her. If you are just some teenage girl who didn't think enough to use a condom, i think they should have to keep the baby. She caused this problem, she needs to live with it.
In the case of a baby who is going to be born severely disabled, or is going to be born with aids to a starving slum in Somalia, then I think abortion is justified. It would be better to save the child from a life of pain and hardship, or from a life where they are stuck in a wheelchair being aided with everything they do than let them suffer in that way.
There is no way to please everyone when it comes to this, I don't think.
Never judge a book by its movie. |
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| Moony |
Posted on 01/16/2013 23:54:13
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Member
Posts: 121
Joined: 06.01.13
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theatticus wrote:
Er, no, I think "aborting" a live baby under a month old is a little extreme. They probably did things rather differently back in the Jesus days.
I know, I know. Rawr quoted one of the ten commandments, so I did some bible research of my own. Just as a "Don't take the bible so literally" sort of thing.
My views still stand as they were on page one:
If it's before 7-10 days, when it's pretty much just an unspecialised ball of cells, then it's absolutely fine no matter what. It's a waste of potential DNA, granted, A waste of something that could be as beautiful as it could be evil (though good and evil are not set at birth), but it's still just a ball of cells. It can't even feel pain at that point, pain receptors are specialised sensory neurones, which are not developed until sometime between weeks 8-24, according to some quick research and depending on where you look. So when it is said to be "quick and painless" It really, truly and scientifically is, it's not just a saying. You can't hurt something that can't feel pain. Past that point? You'll have to carry the baby- I think ten days is long enough for someone to decide whether they want the child or not.
An abortion in that case is viable in only three solid reasons:
-A victim of rape wants to get rid of the baby.
-The baby has genetic problems that will have a severe effect on it's lifespan and/or living quality.
-The health of the mother will severely decline after childbirth or she will die shortly after childbirth.
I'm not so sure about being brought up in poverty, though. On one hand, there are the CPS or Social Services or whatever. On the other, why are you having sex to create children if you can't look after yourself? Is that fair on the child?
Selfish people have intercourse and create babies and have abortions all the time; They're morally incorrect, granted, so very morally incorrect, but I hate to say that scientifically they're not hurting anything. Murder? That depends on the person, I guess, but I don't think that between Day 1 to 10 an abortion is murder. Afterwards? Yes, other than the three rules I outlined above.
Tu fui, ego eris.
Signature: Maribelle, Fire Emblem Awakening |
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| PirateKing |
Posted on 01/17/2013 00:45:13
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Numpty
Posts: 1128
Joined: 01.03.12
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http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm
its wrong. theres no question about it. when the baby is conceived its a baby! when its conceived theres a soul in it nd it can feel pain. God puts the soul into the baby as soon as its concieved. look at the story at the end of the article. people should never get an abortion, there are so many other alternatives. theres a place here called carenet pregnancy center that if the mother doesnt want the baby they will find parents for it before its born!. God created life from conception.
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| Carnage |
Posted on 01/17/2013 02:01:18
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Super Admin
Posts: 4245
Joined: 28.09.11
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I would like to point out that on the website you posted it gives the verse Deut 12:23 and says that the presence of blood is what constitutes life. It goes on to say that the bloodstream develops in a fetus at 4 weeks. So basically it's saying that prior to that fetuses are not considered to be living. So that seems contradictory to the sites later claim that life begins at conception.
I'm not trying to pick on religious beliefs about this but instead am pointing out that even the bible, the christian god's holy word, is contradictory on this subject.
There are several other things on that site you posted that I wish to address but I'm on my phone and its difficult to type so much. I want to point out though that the bible is not a book I think we should turn to for ethical guidance about whether to abort a fetus. The bible is filled with instances where Jehovah has slain thousands of people for trivial things. I honestly can't say I would take moral advice from someone like the god of the Christian bible.
"Hey guys, I just bought this thing called a sight ward...so it's GG." - MasterA in League of Legends
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| Joe |
Posted on 01/17/2013 04:26:42
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Senior Member
Posts: 386
Joined: 27.11.10
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I think if the woman dosen't want the baby then I think she should be able to have an abortion.
Kudos to the ladies that would keep it.
But honestly its the choice of each woman to keep it or not.
I find it wrong for anyone to force a child on a woman who dosen't want to carry it.
I don't care about your religious arguement over it.
And on page one rawr asked if you would want to be aborted...my response.
Yes indeed I would any other questions that you assume i'd say no to?
Edited by Joe on 01/17/2013 04:38:51
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/17/2013 13:39:35
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Having no interest in religion, I find it hard to accept religious arguments. You'll remember I mentioned earlier about a woman in Ireland who died because she was refused an abortion. The reason? Because 'Ireland is a Catholic country'. If a woman is dying and an abortion is the only way to save her and the baby, what practical objection would you have to it?
@Raven - so you're saying that the choice is entirely up to the mother? I can see where you're coming from but if the baby and mother are healthy, if no disease is apparent, if the child is going to be born into a decent life, is there any reason to get an abortion? I would still feel uneasy about ending a life for no reason, no matter how undeveloped.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| tim |
Posted on 01/17/2013 17:27:22
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Member
Posts: 164
Joined: 09.10.11
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The Hat of Love wrote:
Having no interest in religion, I find it hard to accept religious arguments. You'll remember I mentioned earlier about a woman in Ireland who died because she was refused an abortion. The reason? Because 'Ireland is a Catholic country'. If a woman is dying and an abortion is the only way to save her and the baby, what practical objection would you have to it?
@Raven - so you're saying that the choice is entirely up to the mother? I can see where you're coming from but if the baby and mother are healthy, if no disease is apparent, if the child is going to be born into a decent life, is there any reason to get an abortion? I would still feel uneasy about ending a life for no reason, no matter how undeveloped.
^ This.
In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, that girl was unable to save her own life because she lived in an area where abortions were religiously frowned upon.
Morals and religion aside... Is there any biological or scientific or whatever other reason that might prove that abortion is murder? My personal belief is that a fetus is not a human, but a grouping of cells with a potential to be a human. I don't think terminating a grouping of cells would be considered murder. Also I must bring up again that a fetus is almost like a parasite. It lives off the mother while contributing nothing to her health at all. By that standard, it would be like removing cancer cells would be conisdered murder 
I believe a woman has her own choices to make on her own health. If she wants an abortion, she has every right to do so.
Regardless of the reason, I'm sure that a woman who chooses to have an abortion will already live the rest of her life in shame anyways. I have nothing but sympathy for them.
Also, I consider giving a child up for adoption to be just as bad and shameful as getting an abortion. From where I come from, there was a practice where you would leave a baby at an orphanage with it's severed umblical cord next to it. It meant that the parents are severing all ties from the baby itself and do not care for it at all. If I were an orphaned child, I would rather be dead then to know that I was nothing more than a mistake and was never wanted in this world anyway.
Just my two cents. |
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/17/2013 17:43:44
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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Being an orphan doesn't necessarily mean the parents have voluntarily 'rejected' their child - there could be a multitude of other reasons. Adopted children may live a better life than they would have had they not been adopted. I think it's wrong to generalise like that.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/17/2013 17:52:43
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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I agree that adoption is often the better option to abortion if you don't want the child. If you're in no position to care for them and give them a good life for whatever reason, why not let someone else adopt?
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 01/17/2013 18:46:05
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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The Hat of Love wrote:
I agree that adoption is often the better option to abortion if you don't want the child. If you're in no position to care for them and give them a good life for whatever reason, why not let someone else adopt?
So we could adopt a child, raise them as gladiators, and make them fight in the arena? Or sacrifice them for our overlordmaster Cthulu |
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| Revenge |
Posted on 01/17/2013 21:55:20
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Super Admin
Posts: 1297
Joined: 28.06.12
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Human life will continue to be laughed at, since we're all just "animals". "Fetuses" used to be considered a child that the mother will carry, give birth to, then raise as her own in a loving fashion. Now, science says that this "group of cells" is not a living child. Because science has ripped apart our humanity and the value of a human being, we allow abortions to happen because the child is a "problem". I'm not going to continue this, because it will just be shot down with other views that have to do with dehumanizing us all.
I believe human life begins at conception, and that abortion is wrong in any and all ways.
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