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Debate 9: Communism or Capitalism
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| ninja |
Posted on 03/10/2012 11:49:13
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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People are only like that because they've grown up in a society in which that's acceptable.
If you're raised to work hard, and treat everyone equally - you will. If you're raised to sit on your arse all day, like many people all - you will.
People's attitudes can be changed. From my point of view, that's part of what communism tries to achieve.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 03/10/2012 12:50:51
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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ninja wrote:
People are only like that because they've grown up in a society in which that's acceptable.
If you're raised to work hard, and treat everyone equally - you will. If you're raised to sit on your arse all day, like many people all - you will.
People's attitudes can be changed. From my point of view, that's part of what communism tries to achieve.
This is what I was trying to tell Adder  |
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| ZA BlackAdder |
Posted on 03/10/2012 13:24:50
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Super Admin
Posts: 2419
Joined: 18.11.10
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only in a perfect world will that be possible.
Humans need an incentive to achieve. Personal gratification is not enough.
Example: This clan. why do we have different admin levels? and why do u guys always want to rank up? So you guys can have more privileges, right? How would Hat feel if he never ranked up past lvl 2 despite all the work he does?
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| ZA 2 |
Posted on 03/10/2012 13:34:37
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Numpty
Posts: 1173
Joined: 15.11.10
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-_-
I am just gonna say that if I will still be the same rank in 5 years.. that's fine with me. but I don't really care anymore about the ranks anymore, just about having fun and things ^_^
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 03/10/2012 14:09:21
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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To be living good in capitalism, you need to be lucky or smart (: |
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| Phoenix |
Posted on 03/10/2012 21:13:02
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16.04.11
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Um no duh the world isn't perfect. Nor humanity. I was not arguing that dudeman. My points were to how communism would be implemented.
In addition, the rules for debate are to not attack other members. Whether your commend had harsh intentions or not, I did take offense. I won't lash back because I will respect the rules.
I think a good way to start concluding this debate is to state that true communism is perfect. But ONLY in humanity is seeking perfection as well. As dudeman and adder stated, sadly, this is not so. Capitalism is perhaps one of the better things to implement in this world. And Brick made a good point too.
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 03/11/2012 04:55:13
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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Thank you Phoenix!
That's why you hear the quote all the time: "Money makes the world go around."
Without money, there would be no order. We're too used to it. |
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| Sarge |
Posted on 04/27/2012 20:35:05
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Senior Member
Posts: 369
Joined: 30.10.11
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Communism is actually rather flawed...
Look at the USSR vs. the USA.
We were competing against each other trying to be better. Did you ever see China and the USSR do something like that despite how much they hated each other? No, communism provides no incentive to make anything better. Everything is equal, so nothing should be changed. No better technology, etc.
Also, many people praise the communist governent for being perfect on paper. In a communist nation, you probably wouldnt be able to look at something about capitalism, at least nothing good. Look at cuba, did anyone else see the interview? Those people were scared as hell of the governemt. Noone speaks up, speaks out, its a governent based on repression. You look at what the government wants you to. You couldn't even say anything negative about a communist government without being arrested.
So, lets review.
Communism = repressive, government controlled, no room or incentive for improvement. Everything is equal.
Capitalism is actually more productive than communism.
In a capitalist market, you strive to either create a better product or a better deal so that people will accept you over your competition. It leads to technological advances. Capitalism is all about self improvement resulted in greater reward. I could not go to college and begin working at mc donald's making absolutely no money. Alternatively, i could go to school for 8 years, become a doctor, and be wealthy, that being said, i dont want to be a doctor soley for money (i love helping people) but its nice to know that my hard work would be paid off. However, capitalism also creates greed, and those who would use dirty tricks to get more money.
Review: Capitalism = more productive, responsible for most of the world's greatest achievements, room for improvement. Corruption and greed.
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| Phoenix |
Posted on 04/27/2012 20:44:51
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16.04.11
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Did you read the entire thread? -___-
The dead walks again lol
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| Magnum |
Posted on 04/28/2012 01:48:03
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Member
Posts: 195
Joined: 23.12.11
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Well I think we need to retrace our steps with communism. This form of govrnment was invented by Karl Marx in 1867 beleiving that the ruling classes held all of the power he was also a believer in social-Darwinism a philosophy saying that you can't change your status in society.
Well theres this country called russia. In 1919 the Russian revolution happens and the rebels were quite succesful managing to depose Czar Nikolaus II from power and a few months layer a radical man by the name of John Lenin appears and is a marxist, a beleiver in marx's communist thoery. He takes power and forms the Soviet Union making it the first communist govrnment ever created.
Well a little bit afterward ww2 happens the soviets lose 20 million of its citizens to the germans. In retaliation they manage to take berlin and under the war's treaty splits Berlin into 4 piecies and spit germany into 4 quartyers. Well the capitalist western Europe wants a united Germany and the soviets do not causing tension which sets the stage for the Cold War the western european nations form NATO and the eastern nations the Warsaw Pact and you want to know what happened during that time with the caoitalist and communist nation.
Communism
* Joseph Stalin disposes of the lesser races to achieve equality which is actually apart of the philosophy of Communism
*Certain parts of USSR starve because the incentive to work does not exist
*Cuba goes under extreme poverty after Fidel takes control in the 1950's
*In order to feed his people Joseph stalin cuts off Ukraine and forces its people to starve
*All private property owned is lost and taken when communism emerges
*Parties in communist countries have to name them with words such as democratic or republic to trick its people
*Eastern Germany is on the verge of economic collapse(money was more useful for heat than commerce)
Capitalism
*Economic boost in America after ww2 and its emergence as a world power
*Western Germany becomes very productive and has great eocnomic boost under its Capitalist overlords
*Many eastern Germans flock to western Germany and America for economic opportunity and private ownership |
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| Hotpot |
Posted on 06/02/2012 12:17:13
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Senior Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 25.05.11
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Actually, comparing communism and capitalism is like comparing apples and oranges. Communism is a type of political system while capitalism is a type of economic system. Look at China. Despite its political system dominated by a single party, the Communist Party, its market is increasingly becoming more capitalistic. Therefore, if you want to make comparisons, you should compare democracy with communism and capitalism with socialism.
List of countries:
Democratic and Capitalist: U.S., Western Europe (U.K., Germany), Japan, South Korea, Singapore
Democratic and Socialist: Scandinavian countries (Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden), Greece, France?
Communist and Capitalist: China (although many of its enterprises are still state-runned)
Communist and Socialist: Cuba (although it has going through economic reform), Venezuela
Edited by Hotpot on 06/02/2012 12:26:54 |
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| Matrix |
Posted on 06/02/2012 18:34:55
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Member
Posts: 236
Joined: 30.04.12
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i hav no clue wut they both r...could someone explain them 2 me ? thx
My mole rat army (MRA) is coming after anyone who likes ocelots.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. |
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| Joshkl2013 |
Posted on 06/03/2012 10:29:19
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Numpty
Posts: 1443
Joined: 26.05.12
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Matrix: google it XD
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/03/2012 14:02:21
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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I would like to thank Mole for his intellectual contribution to this debate.
And that's true, communism and capitalism aren't really on the same scale. Though comparing apples and oranges works because they are both fruits.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| Matrix |
Posted on 06/03/2012 14:16:18
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Member
Posts: 236
Joined: 30.04.12
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The Hat of Love wrote:
I would like to thank Mole for his intellectual contribution to this debate.
rlly ? oh..well ur welcome XD glad i could help
My mole rat army (MRA) is coming after anyone who likes ocelots.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. |
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| GreenEarth |
Posted on 06/15/2012 21:18:36
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Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: 11.04.12
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Both of these systems don't come near perfection for one simple reason, they run on an assumption of infinite growth. The whole global financial paradigm recquires infinite growth to be sustained. This infinite growth collides with finite energy. Basically all political parties at the moment are anachronisms. The systems under discussion in this thread were created under the assumption of infinite resources. Not one of these systems recognizes that were must be a balance between growth and the resources on the planet. Sooner or later human beings will be forced to recognize that it lives on a finite planet and it must have balance with that planet and with the life on that plenet. Nothing grows forever and everyone can't have everything they want.
A simplified way to describe it would be a bubble, which can be described with a bell cruve. Hyperaccelerated growth follwed by a swift crash. Most systems in nature follow this pattern. Economics follows this pattern. And it can be argued that human population will follow this pattern. We had a huge spike in population thanks to the advent of oil, and if something doesn't successfully replace all the energy being provided by oil (it wont the way humans have been behaving as a whole recently) by something else then human population will probably crash in whatever form, starvation, war, etc. |
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| Hotpot |
Posted on 06/16/2012 15:54:01
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Senior Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 25.05.11
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There are various degrees of capitalism in the world. American-style capitalism have constant competitions not just between corporations, but also between corporation, American government, and labor unions. That is why U.S. has antitrust laws to break down monopolies in order to keep to market playing-field competitive.
In much of Europe, however, there are a lot of cooperations between corporations, government, and labor unions. This is why many European corporations have labor union and government officials as member of their Board of Directors, recession or not.
Having been to Europe to study abroad, I had seen many American exchange students criticize European style capitalism as "crony" and "unfair" due to the amount of intermingling between government officials and corporate businessmen. Local European students, however, countered that American capitalism is too "cutthroat" because of the constant "animosity" among corporations, state, and labor unions. They pointed to the constant power struggles in Congress regarding financial reform initiatives.
Asian style capitalism is very similar to European style capitalism because of strong coordination between Asian government and their major businesses enterprises. For example, in South Korea, major business conglomerates (or blocks) called "chaebol" always forge strong ties with South Korean officials, since they contribute a significant portion to the South Korean economy. One major difference between European and Asian capitalism is that Europeans strongly value labor unions while Asians do not.
It is the same with democracy, socialism, and communism as well. Some countries are more democratic than others (such as corrupt countries). Some socialist countries have higher taxes than other, but the government provides more government necessities. Some communist countries allow more private enterprises and freedom of speech while others are more totalitarian and orderly.
My point is that capitalism and communism are like colors. They have various shades of degrees. There is no one size fit all. Around the world, you can see various styles of these systems.
Edited by Hotpot on 06/16/2012 16:11:52
Which one are you? |
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| Hotpot |
Posted on 06/16/2012 16:08:33
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Senior Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 25.05.11
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Try traveling to other countries and study there. You may be surprised how "capitalism" and "democracy" in even other Western countries differ from your definition of "capitalism" and "democracy".
Edited by Hotpot on 06/16/2012 16:11:26
Which one are you? |
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| samtheman32 |
Posted on 08/08/2012 22:25:31
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Member
Posts: 118
Joined: 08.02.12
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I like a federation better lol, make the people earn the right to become apart of it.
I would agree with you.... But then we'd both be wrong
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