ZA BrickSquad wrote: These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
None of those commandments say I can't punch you in the face. And anyway, some people have to work on Sunday...
Do not kill...you can kill someone with the punch, so why would you try to kill me?
Do what I want? That will lead into anarchy and chaos.
Why is this so?
If I can do what I want in my life, I don't think there is anything close to what you just said. Which now is making me think why you want to do bad things?
rosario wrote:
why dicuss about such a sensitive topic?
Because most of us can have a civilized discussion, if it bothers you, then leave please. We do not want anyone getting hurt if it's too sensitive for them.
Edited by ZA BrickSquad on 09/07/2012 20:41:27
ZA BrickSquad wrote: These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
None of those commandments say I can't punch you in the face. And anyway, some people have to work on Sunday...
Do not kill...you can kill someone with the punch, so why would you try to kill me?
Do what I want? That will lead into anarchy and chaos.
Why is this so?
If I can do what I want in my life, I don't think there is anything close to what you just said. Which now is making me think why you want to do bad things?
rosario wrote:
why dicuss about such a sensitive topic?
Because most of us can have a civilized discussion, if it bothers you, then leave please. We do not want anyone getting hurt if it's too sensitive for them.
Well I believe those 10 laws around the world would make it a perfect place. There is more detail into each of the commandments, but I just found it in simplest form that can be understood. Such as not killing, selling cocaine (kills people slowly), beating up someone, sexual exploiting of little girls (it kills the kids mentally), you get me?
But for now in this society worldwide, I wouldn't really want to pressure people into believing something they don't want to. So I never really ask people to believe in what I believe, if they ask, I'll explain and give them my reasoning. So it's just like follow morals kinda, but these 10 would cover everything if detailed and broken down. You can ask me anything, any scenario and I'll answer you, message me anytime on site.
See^ We are the only species in the world that can rationalize, and have discussions like this and reasoning. It's all part of communication, no matter what language, even if it hieroglyphs, or no written language. It's all part of how beautiful the human mind is.
such as if some one is about to kill you can you fight back? because if you just sit there and let them do it wouldn't that count under suicide.....
Don't bare the name if you can't play the game!
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
God made plants and animals for us to use, btw.
That is completely correct. The Dominion Mandate. It is a command issued to Adam (and everyone else) that we were to have dominion over everything. We s\are to multiply and to subdue the earth.
Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.
ZA mortal wrote:
um is there any loop holes around do not kill.
such as if some one is about to kill you can you fight back? because if you just sit there and let them do it wouldn't that count under suicide.....
Yes. Somewhere in the Bible but I cant think of the Bible verse at the top of my head right now.....
ZA BrickSquad wrote: We are the only species in the world that can rationalize, and have discussions like this and reasoning. It's all part of communication, no matter what language, even if it hieroglyphs, or no written language. It's all part of how beautiful the human mind is.
People mis-interpret the meaning of "made in the image of God." It DOES NOT mean that we have the same physical features of God, but we have the mental features of God, which is the will (the ability to distinguish right and wrong), the mind (our intellectual and the ability to think), and emotions (love, compassion, sympathy, and etc).
Animals DO NOT have these. They act upon their natural instincts. That is why I feel quite offended when people say "we are animals". Because we ARE NOT. We have "the will (the ability to distinguish right and wrong), the mind (our intellectual and the ability to think), and emotions (love, compassion, sympathy, and etc)."
You are correct in the post Brick. Just putting what you said to details.
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
God made plants and animals for us to use, btw.
That is completely correct. The Dominion Mandate. It is a command issued to Adam (and everyone else) that we were to have dominion over everything. We s\are to multiply and to subdue the earth.
Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.
This is one example of how religion can be dangerous. It's all very well going around destroying the planet and killing animals, but when you irrevocably destruct this delicate ecosystem, I fear God might not be around to save you.
matrix12345 wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote: We are the only species in the world that can rationalize, and have discussions like this and reasoning. It's all part of communication, no matter what language, even if it hieroglyphs, or no written language. It's all part of how beautiful the human mind is.
People mis-interpret the meaning of "made in the image of God." It DOES NOT mean that we have the same physical features of God, but we have the mental features of God, which is the will (the ability to distinguish right and wrong), the mind (our intellectual and the ability to think), and emotions (love, compassion, sympathy, and etc).
Animals DO NOT have these. They act upon their natural instincts. That is why I feel quite offended when people say "we are animals". Because we ARE NOT. We have "the will (the ability to distinguish right and wrong), the mind (our intellectual and the ability to think), and emotions (love, compassion, sympathy, and etc)."
You are correct in the post Brick. Just putting what you said to details.
We evolved from animals, so we are animals. We are probably the most complex organisms on this planet, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we share so much in common with other inhabitants of Earth.
My Pocket Oxford English Dictionary defines animal as: "n. a living organism that can move about of its own accord and has specialized sense organs and nervous system." It's origins are from the Latin "animalis", meaning "having breath". The above is a thoroughly accurate definition of a member of the species homo sapiens, a human being, which in case you are in any doubt, is in the Kingdom Animalia.
We act on natural instincts too. Many stimuli cause an 'automatic' response by means of a relay neuron, and other 'semi-automatic' reactions will be briefly coordinated by our Central Nervous System. Our heart rate increases in times of perceived danger, you will withdraw your hand if it touches something hot, adult humans experience a sex drive - all of these are 'natural' instincts which have evolved in order to propagate our genes. It is literally 'survival of the fittest' - and the fittest will have the best instincts.
It would be somewhat naive to claim that other animals cannot think. They have similarly constructed brains to human brains. They might not share exactly our sense of 'right and wrong', but many species seem to exhibit some sense of morality in their community, probably due to factors that I mentioned earlier in this discussion.
I'm not claiming that other animals have an intellect on the same level as ours, I would just like to point out that they most certainly think.
"I find the notion of being born a sinner somewhat ridiculous. A newly born baby has yet to experience the world outside the womb, and can therefore not be at all defined as a person. I suppose if you're a determinist you'd argue conversely, but surely that doesn't take away from the strange feeling of assigning a 'sin' to someone who has yet to even move."
It's called original sin, not meant to be taken to literally. Clearly something you dont understand about the bible. Noahs ark, again dont take it to literally, these are all paraboles to explain life ect....... they arent necessarily true.
And ninja through out this thread you have been judgemental/sarcastic/cynical. You have made many snide comments through out.......... as has Hat.
also no you don't need to believe in god to be a moral person, however without people believing in god and the basic teachings there may be no moral guidlines, for you have basically said at points i don't believe in god so its kl to do whatever. without god the world could well be in choas.
also prove he isn't real. you cant. so this argument is all but null and void. Just as we cant prove he is real.
No, we can't prove it, but we can discuss our thoughts about it, can't we?
We are animals, Mole. More advanced and intellectual than most, yes, but animals all the same. We share (as has been proven) about 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. We share about 60% of our DNA with a dog, if I remember correctly.
To say that we have to 'subdue' the earth just doesn't seem right. We're better than a cat? No, we're more intelligent but that doesn't mean we have to say we're better and rule over it. Evolution does exist and we have evolved from simpler organisms. To reject the evidence would be closed-minded.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
We evolved from animals, so we are animals. We are probably the most complex organisms on this planet, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we share so much in common with other inhabitants of Earth.
My Pocket Oxford English Dictionary defines animal as: "n. a living organism that can move about of its own accord and has specialized sense organs and nervous system." It's origins are from the Latin "animalis", meaning "having breath". The above is a thoroughly accurate definition of a member of the species homo sapiens, a human being, which in case you are in any doubt, is in the Kingdom Animalia.
We have NOT been evolved. Man and animal were created SEPARATELY in the 6 days of creation. I mean image the COMPLEXITY of our body. How on earth could a tiny cell evolve into a complex human body. We have DNA which is INCREDIBLY hard to understand even to the most advanced scientist. And how about our nerve system ? Or eyes ? We DID NOT evolve. We were created in the image of God.
ninja wrote:
We act on natural instincts too. Many stimuli cause an 'automatic' response by means of a relay neuron, and other 'semi-automatic' reactions will be briefly coordinated by our Central Nervous System. Our heart rate increases in times of perceived danger, you will withdraw your hand if it touches something hot, adult humans experience a sex drive - all of these are 'natural' instincts which have evolved in order to propagate our genes. It is literally 'survival of the fittest' - and the fittest will have the best instincts.
Yes we DO use our instincts....but do animals have a will ? A soul ? An ability to distinguished from what is right and what is wrong ? Can they love ? Can they feel pity for another ? No.
ninja wrote:
I'm not claiming that other animals have an intellect on the same level as ours, I would just like to point out that they most certainly think.
Animals do not think. They act upon their instincts.
The Hat of Love wrote:
No, we can't prove it, but we can discuss our thoughts about it, can't we?
We are animals, Mole. More advanced and intellectual than most, yes, but animals all the same. We share (as has been proven) about 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. We share about 60% of our DNA with a dog, if I remember correctly.
To say that we have to 'subdue' the earth just doesn't seem right. We're better than a cat? No, we're more intelligent but that doesn't mean we have to say we're better and rule over it. Evolution does exist and we have evolved from simpler organisms. To reject the evidence would be closed-minded.
To me, being called "an animal" is a complete insult. We have dominion over every animal and plant. We ARE better than cats because God has given us dominion over them. Evolution DOES NOT exist. We have 98% same DNA as chimps...SO WHAT ? We absolutely DID NOT evolve from simple cell.
weeshuggy wrote:
"I find the notion of being born a sinner somewhat ridiculous. A newly born baby has yet to experience the world outside the womb, and can therefore not be at all defined as a person. I suppose if you're a determinist you'd argue conversely, but surely that doesn't take away from the strange feeling of assigning a 'sin' to someone who has yet to even move."
It's called original sin, not meant to be taken to literally. Clearly something you dont understand about the bible. Noahs ark, again dont take it to literally, these are all paraboles to explain life ect....... they arent necessarily true.
And ninja through out this thread you have been judgemental/sarcastic/cynical. You have made many snide comments through out.......... as has Hat.
also no you don't need to believe in god to be a moral person, however without people believing in god and the basic teachings there may be no moral guidlines, for you have basically said at points i don't believe in god so its kl to do whatever. without god the world could well be in choas.
also prove he isn't real. you cant. so this argument is all but null and void. Just as we cant prove he is real.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but matrix seems to be taken it very much literally. Like I've said earlier, I don't have a problem with the Bible at all, so long as it is read as literature. It's not a History textbook.
I've been deliberately sarcastic to a certain extent. It's not supposed to be a personal attack on anybody, rather to emphasise those aspects of religion to which I take issue.
I disagree with you about moral guidelines not existing without God. Besides, as others have mentioned, is it truly a 'moral compass' if you're only motivated by fear of not ending up in Heaven. I don't think (but I'm not sure) that a Hell (or a Heaven) exists, yet I don't go on rampages murdering hundreds of people. I am friendly to people simply in the hope that they will reciprocate that kindness. This, in my opinion, is a more likely explanation for the origins of morality - members of society are altruistic because they have learn that by doing so, they will receive the same treatment. Thus, those who exhibit altruism are more likely to survive (since they have the support of the community) and this altruistic nature will be passed on down the generation. There may well be other contributing causes.
I've already confirmed a number of times that I can't prove with 100% certainty that God does or doesn't exist. I can still hold a sense of 'likelihood' of existence - a value which, as I have already explained enough not to warrant repetition, to be pretty low. At the moment, this discussion is more an exploration of religion in general, as opposed to just God.
We evolved from animals, so we are animals. We are probably the most complex organisms on this planet, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we share so much in common with other inhabitants of Earth.
My Pocket Oxford English Dictionary defines animal as: "n. a living organism that can move about of its own accord and has specialized sense organs and nervous system." It's origins are from the Latin "animalis", meaning "having breath". The above is a thoroughly accurate definition of a member of the species homo sapiens, a human being, which in case you are in any doubt, is in the Kingdom Animalia.
We have NOT been evolved. Man and animal were created SEPARATELY in the 6 days of creation. I mean image the COMPLEXITY of our body. How on earth could a tiny cell evolve into a complex human body. We have DNA which is INCREDIBLY hard to understand even to the most advanced scientist. And how about our nerve system ? Or eyes ? We DID NOT evolve. We were created in the image of God.
ninja wrote:
We act on natural instincts too. Many stimuli cause an 'automatic' response by means of a relay neuron, and other 'semi-automatic' reactions will be briefly coordinated by our Central Nervous System. Our heart rate increases in times of perceived danger, you will withdraw your hand if it touches something hot, adult humans experience a sex drive - all of these are 'natural' instincts which have evolved in order to propagate our genes. It is literally 'survival of the fittest' - and the fittest will have the best instincts.
Yes we DO use our instincts....but do animals have a will ? A soul ? An ability to distinguished from what is right and what is wrong ? Can they love ? Can they feel pity for another ? No.
ninja wrote:
I'm not claiming that other animals have an intellect on the same level as ours, I would just like to point out that they most certainly think.
Animals do not think. They act upon their instincts.
Evolution has been going on for well over two billion years. In this incredibly long timeframe evolution is plausible. It works through a system called natural selection: when new organisms are created (through reproduction) the DNA isn't always copied exactly right, creating a mutation, for example, more teeth, slightly stronger, etc.. More often than not this mutation will not help the animal and it is less likely to survive long enough to reproduce, therefore it dies out. If, however, the mutation is helpful it will survive longer and reproduce more. Eventually different organisms split off into different branches, with different mutations allowing them to live in different places or different ways. When this continues over billions of years eventually you end up with something the complexity of the human body.
And think logically: the human body is very well suited and very well 'designed', not because it was created (if it was, why aren't we perfect?) but because if it didn't work we would never have lasted as long as we have.
I'm sure animals probably want stuff. I don't think anything has a soul as such so no. Can they love, pity, distinguish right from wrong? Well, I don't know, have you asked them? Not on the same level we can, since they haven't evolved as much or in the same direction but I'm fairly sure animals have basic feelings. How can you claim that animals don't think? You don't know that and there's plenty of evidence that you do think. There was a guide dog in Britain who, when his owner was knocked down by a car, put him in the recovery position, made sure he was alright and waited until he regained consciousness before barking for help. Pure animal instinct? No, that dog was thinking on some level.
And are you denying that humans have instincts? If you touch a hot oven do you think 'this oven is hot, it is doing damage to my body, I'll move it'? No, of course not, you move it back instantly, instinctively.
Endal came again to national attention in a 2001 incident, when Allen was knocked out of his wheelchair by a passing car. Endal pulled Allen, who was unconscious, into the recovery position, retrieved his mobile phone from beneath the car, fetched a blanket and covered him, barked at nearby dwellings for assistance, and then ran to a nearby hotel to obtain help.
Edited by The Hat of Love on 09/08/2012 13:15:11
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
matrix12345 wrote:
We have NOT been evolved. Man and animal were created SEPARATELY in the 6 days of creation. I mean image the COMPLEXITY of our body. How on earth could a tiny cell evolve into a complex human body. We have DNA which is INCREDIBLY hard to understand even to the most advanced scientist. And how about our nerve system ? Or eyes ? We DID NOT evolve. We were created in the image of God.
We're talking about a BIG time scale here, in excess of 13 billion years. A lot can happen in that time.
In a way, this is why evolution is a much more plausible theory (although the evidence is overwhelming). It explains life in such a beautifully simple way, without need to introduce any more complications, such as a God. Explaining how gradual changes in groups of organisms are brought about by pressures from the environment and competition, is just basic probability. Yes, the mechanisms themselves are fairly complex, but there's nothing confusing about the process itself.
Anyway, how about we settle it like this?
I am an animal which evolved in the course of the 14.6 billion years that Earth has been orbiting around the Sun for.
You can be God's creation.
ninja wrote:
Apologies if I'm wrong, but matrix seems to be taken it very much literally. Like I've said earlier, I don't have a problem with the Bible at all, so long as it is read as literature. It's not a History textbook.
But it IS historical book. But at the same time its how God speaks to me.
ninja wrote:
We're talking about a BIG time scale here, in excess of 13 billion years. A lot can happen in that time.
The earth has not been here for billions of year. It has only been here for thousands of years. 20,000 years max.
ZA BrickSquad wrote: We are the only species in the world that can rationalize, and have discussions like this and reasoning. It's all part of communication, no matter what language, even if it hieroglyphs, or no written language. It's all part of how beautiful the human mind is.
People mis-interpret the meaning of "made in the image of God." It DOES NOT mean that we have the same physical features of God, but we have the mental features of God, which is the will (the ability to distinguish right and wrong), the mind (our intellectual and the ability to think), and emotions (love, compassion, sympathy, and etc).
Animals DO NOT have these. They act upon their natural instincts. That is why I feel quite offended when people say "we are animals". Because we ARE NOT. We have "the will (the ability to distinguish right and wrong), the mind (our intellectual and the ability to think), and emotions (love, compassion, sympathy, and etc)."
You are correct in the post Brick. Just putting what you said to details.
Matrix thanks for your help but please do not try to explain my reasoning, because you are not me. We are animals, go open up a science book. Sorry if I'm sounding too aggressive but I really don't like when people twist my words.
And yes Ninja you are correct, other animals do think. But remember, our brains function so differently then other animals in the kingdom. They think very simple.
And I agree with Huggy/Castelli. Ninja been smarter about it, but Hat sometimes goes a little too far...
Hat...we are on top of the food chain, I think if we want, we can disrupt the whole food chain or even wipe out our own species. How many animals do you know than can wipe out millions or maybe billions of their own?
Evolution happens in front of us...how are the other animals "working" and "surviving"?
ninja wrote:
Anyway, how about we settle it like this?
I am an animal which evolved in the course of the 14.6 billion years that Earth has been orbiting around the Sun for.
You can be God's creation.
Yes, remember God doesn't get old, he has all the time he can. Well idk if he actually has time, as in living in a place with time in existence. And the universe we live in now is like a "map" such as Boarding action, except we can fall for a very long time...lol get me?
This video is interesting for believers and non-believers, it's just a video about size =)
Matrix thanks for your help but please do not try to explain my reasoning, because you are not me. We are animals, go open up a science book. Sorry if I'm sounding too aggressive but I really don't like when people twist my words.
[b][color=#cc0000]And yes Ninja you are correct, other animals do think. But remember, our brains function so differently then other animals in the kingdom. They think very simple.
Sorry. I was just saying what I believed which is kinda similar to what you were saying.
Matrix thanks for your help but please do not try to explain my reasoning, because you are not me. We are animals, go open up a science book. Sorry if I'm sounding too aggressive but I really don't like when people twist my words.
[color=#cc0000]And yes Ninja you are correct, other animals do think. But remember, our brains function so differently then other animals in the kingdom. They think very simple.
Sorry. I was just saying what I believed which is kinda similar to what you were saying.
It's okay =) Sorry it's that I have a bad experience with people twisting my words, I had to get rid of a police officer because of that.
Edited by ZA BrickSquad on 09/08/2012 15:02:04
Mole, even most Christians dont' take the Bible completely literally. Much of it, particularly the old testament, is simplified and more to do with moral stories than a record of history. I have heard that there were originally more humans that God created but the Catholic church simplified it to just Adam and Eve for whatever reason.
There is so much overwhelming evidence that the earth is more than 20,000 years old. Here is an interesting page that may open your mind. It is from a site called www.catholic.com, written by Christians. http://www.cathol...-evolution is the link.
What I get from it is that the Church does not take the Bible literally. The Church does not disregard the scientific evidence, as you are, but says that evolution, however the universe came into existence, the formation of stars, etc. may have happened exactly like scientists say they did but under the influence of God.
So what it's saying (what these Christians are saying) is that the scientific theories about stuff are correct but that God was overseeing all of it. It also says that evolution did happen. What it says is that the human body evolved from other animals but the human soul was made by God.
Even other Christians, on this catholic.com, do not reject evolution as you do, Mole, because they know it happened. The full page makes decent reading.
And Brick, I know we're top of the food chain and everything and we are the dominant species at the moment but to take the Bible as an excuse to actively subdue the world seems wrong to me. I still think we have to share this world with other animals; they're not there for us, they're just there in the same way we are.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
