|
Debate 10: God
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:22:55
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
ninja wrote:
matrix12345 wrote:
All 10 commandments are equally important. There is only one thing needed to have a perfect world. Obey and live your life for God. That is all but since we are born sinners, that is IMPOSSIBLE. HOWEVER...I am waiting for the 2nd coming of Christ and although I am prtty sure he will come way after I die. There WILL be a perfect world when the 2nd coming of Christ occurs. Both heaven and earth will be merged together. Those who hav rebelled and rejected God will spend eturnalty in hell and those who have believed and had trust and faith in him will live in eturnalty with God in the new PERFECT world.
An .... interesting ... viewpoint. 0.0
I fail to see how living your life for a being which may or may not exist can possibly lead to a perfect world. In fact, I would struggle to classify that as 'living' as such, since a lifetime devoted in such a way could well take away from the important things in life.
I am thoroughly confused by your words, however perhaps I'm not "interpreting" them in the correct way. I hope at least that you understand what you're living life for, and I encourage you not to spend your whole time worrying about what 'God thinks'. Do what you want, not what society expects of you.
Do what I want? That will lead into anarchy and chaos. I will NOT live my life and do what I want. God has given me commandments and I will live and dedicate me live in his purpose and plan for me. What I want to do is stupid immature, but if you live for God than he will reward you and guide you down the road of life..... |
| |
|
|
| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:23:41
|
Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
|
matrix12345 wrote:
I believe in God because I have faith and trust in him.
"I have faith and trust in him" is just paraphrasing "I believe in him".
matrix12345 wrote:
He has guided me through the horrids of life for 13 years and will continue to do so with his grace, mercy, and love.
Well I'm glad that you've been guided through the tougher periods of life, and hope you don't face too many struggles in the future.
However, I would warn of putting too much faith into a God. Psychologically, faith can be quite a powerful remedy, but don't underestimate science if you're looking for the truth. No matter how much faith a have in being able to fly, jumping out of the window is likely to hurt.
matrix12345 wrote:
And we are not born sinners ? Of course we are. Even a baby knows that crying will get someone come running to them. That is why they cry like 24/7. We ARE born sinners and will die, but we can receive eternal life through believing in God.
Well you're entitled to your private opinion, just please don't go around prosecuting (/crucifying - whatever you do) innocent babies.
matrix12345 wrote:
And I dont understand your last question.
Would you say that moral values are an inherently Christian phenomenon? Is it possible for someone who rejects the Christian faith to act in a truly moral way?
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
| |
|
|
| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:26:05
|
Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
|
matrix12345 wrote:
Do what I want? That will lead into anarchy and chaos. I will NOT live my life and do what I want. God has given me commandments and I will live and dedicate me live in his purpose and plan for me. What I want to do is stupid immature, but if you live for God than he will reward you and guide you down the road of life.....
This slightly scares me, so I don't think I'll pursue further. I just beg you to consider the rational viewpoint before plunging yourself into a world of faith and promises.
You've got one life - make the most of it.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:27:38
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
ninja wrote:
"I have faith and trust in him" is just paraphrasing "I believe in him".
so? i do...with all my heart
ninja wrote:
Well I'm glad that you've been guided through the tougher periods of life, and hope you don't face too many struggles in the future.
However, I would warn of putting too much faith into a God. Psychologically, faith can be quite a powerful remedy, but don't underestimate science if you're looking for the truth. No matter how much faith a have in being able to fly, jumping out of the window is likely to hurt.
God is my god and my only god. I will have faith in him and trust that he will guide my paths.
ninja wrote:
Well you're entitled to your private opinion, just please don't go around prosecuting (/crucifying - whatever you do) innocent babies.
i am not...i am only stating my own opinion that all r born sinners....u, me everyone
ninja wrote:
Would you say that moral values are an inherently Christian phenomenon? Is it possible for someone who rejects the Christian faith to act in a truly moral way?
still dont understand it...sorry |
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:31:02
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
ninja wrote:
This slightly scares me, so I don't think I'll pursue further. I just beg you to consider the rational viewpoint before plunging yourself into a world of faith and promises.
You've got one life - make the most of it.
Yes...I've got one life THAT GOD GAVE to me. I mean, he could litterally cause me to die right now...right here. But being gracious and merciful, he has allowed me the opportunity to live....and I am forever grateful....and with the life he has given me, I will live it the best I can to glorify and honor God. |
| |
|
|
| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:31:58
|
ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
|
It is ridiculous to say that God is necessary for morality.
When Ninja says 'do what you want' I imagine what he means is that you shouldn't live your life in fear. 'Oh, no, I can't do that, God will be angry' can be replaced by either 'Wait, I can do this, I'm not hurting anybody' or 'Oh no, I can't do that, other people won't like it.' Don't live your life thinking of God, live it thinking of other people.
You don't have to believe in God to think of other people. It's a very old-fashioned view - 'the native people of this island believe in heathen gods, we must convert them to Christianity and give them morals!' It's ridiculous to say that if no one believed in God the world would be anarchy because everyone would be acting immorally and, I think, a sad thing to say about the world that we need fear of punishment to act well.
And what's the point of telling an atheist he's going to hell?
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
 |
| |
|
|
| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:35:06
|
ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
|
matrix12345 wrote:
ninja wrote:
This slightly scares me, so I don't think I'll pursue further. I just beg you to consider the rational viewpoint before plunging yourself into a world of faith and promises.
You've got one life - make the most of it.
Yes...I've got one life THAT GOD GAVE to me. I mean, he could litterally cause me to die right now...right here. But being gracious and merciful, he has allowed me the opportunity to live....and I am forever grateful....and with the life he has given me, I will live it the best I can to glorify and honor God.
Hm, that's what you believe, since you've been brought up to believe it. Why spend your whole life dedicating yourself to a God the evidence for whom is non-existent? The impression I get is that at the moment you're just repeating standard Christian responses like 'I trust that God will guide me,' without really thinking about what this all means.
And let's not forget that he did cause people do die; everyone, according the the bible, in the Flood.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
|
| |
|
|
| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:35:43
|
Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
|
matrix12345 wrote:
ninja wrote:
"I have faith and trust in him" is just paraphrasing "I believe in him".
so? i do...with all my heart
ninja wrote:
Well I'm glad that you've been guided through the tougher periods of life, and hope you don't face too many struggles in the future.
However, I would warn of putting too much faith into a God. Psychologically, faith can be quite a powerful remedy, but don't underestimate science if you're looking for the truth. No matter how much faith a have in being able to fly, jumping out of the window is likely to hurt.
God is my god and my only god. I will have faith in him and trust that he will guide my paths.
ninja wrote:
Well you're entitled to your private opinion, just please don't go around prosecuting (/crucifying - whatever you do) innocent babies.
i am not...i am only stating my own opinion that all r born sinners....u, me everyone
ninja wrote:
Would you say that moral values are an inherently Christian phenomenon? Is it possible for someone who rejects the Christian faith to act in a truly moral way?
still dont understand it...sorry
Your recital of propaganda is very impressive. You've been persuaded well. It's a shame that reason isn't provided alongside God - then this impressive teaching technique might be of greater merit.
I'm beginning to suspect "not understanding" is another way of saying "I haven't been told a suitable answer by the church yet". One more go ...
My question:
"I am not Christian. It is possible for me to be moral? Can I have a sense of 'right' and 'wrong'"?
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:39:35
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
The Hat of Love wrote:
It is ridiculous to say that God is necessary for morality.
When Ninja says 'do what you want' I imagine what he means is that you shouldn't live your life in fear. 'Oh, no, I can't do that, God will be angry' can be replaced by either 'Wait, I can do this, I'm not hurting anybody' or 'Oh no, I can't do that, other people won't like it.' Don't live your life thinking of God, live it thinking of other people.
I dont live my life in fear. I live my life in love for God.
The Hat of Love wrote:
And what's the point of telling an atheist he's going to hell?
that is a VERY "direct" approach to convert an aetheist...and the worst way to convert some 1 to christiannity....but so he can MAYBE hav thoughts of being a christian....God will work in his life and MAYBE if that aetheist will let God in his heart and stop resisting God, he will be a christain and be a believer of christ |
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:42:51
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
ninja wrote:
My question:
"I am not Christian. It is possible for me to be moral? Can I have a sense of 'right' and 'wrong'"?
Yes, you do. You were made in the image of God. Meaning you have the same will, mind, and emotions as God has and no animal has them. We KNOW what is right and wrong, but we tend to choose what WE want. Does that answer it ? |
| |
|
|
| ZA mortal |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:43:41
|
Wanker
Posts: 592
Joined: 18.11.10
|
believe in Eternity.... oh and live as best you can.
Eternity brings possibility no matter what religion you are.
Hell: i really don't think god could stand listening to people screaming for all eternity.
Reborn: eh theres still a slim chance to have your memories.
man even with eternity theres the posibility of becoming a god or goddess your self.
ETERNITY RULEZ!!! 
Edited by ZA mortal on 09/07/2012 18:44:31
Don't bare the name if you can't play the game!
 |
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:45:18
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
The Hat of Love wrote:
matrix12345 wrote:
ninja wrote:
This slightly scares me, so I don't think I'll pursue further. I just beg you to consider the rational viewpoint before plunging yourself into a world of faith and promises.
You've got one life - make the most of it.
Yes...I've got one life THAT GOD GAVE to me. I mean, he could litterally cause me to die right now...right here. But being gracious and merciful, he has allowed me the opportunity to live....and I am forever grateful....and with the life he has given me, I will live it the best I can to glorify and honor God.
Hm, that's what you believe, since you've been brought up to believe it. Why spend your whole life dedicating yourself to a God the evidence for whom is non-existent? The impression I get is that at the moment you're just repeating standard Christian responses like 'I trust that God will guide me,' without really thinking about what this all means.
And let's not forget that he did cause people do die; everyone, according the the bible, in the Flood.
He did not cause ppl to die. They were in his judgement. They were "wicked". But God found grace in the eyes of Noah. Noah was spared because of his faith and trust in God. And God was gracious enough to spare Noah and his family. |
| |
|
|
| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:47:06
|
Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
|
matrix12345 wrote:
ninja wrote:
My question:
"I am not Christian. It is possible for me to be moral? Can I have a sense of 'right' and 'wrong'"?
Yes, you do. You were made in the image of God. Meaning you have the same will, mind, and emotions as God has and no animal has them. We KNOW what is right and wrong, but we tend to choose what WE want. Does that answer it ?
Sort of - yes. Thank you.
I would propose that God was made in the image of man, but from your previous responses there seems little point in calling this a debate - rather you repeating what your Church teacher has drummed into your poor little head.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
| |
|
|
| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:48:45
|
ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
|
Your recital of propaganda is very impressive. You've been persuaded well. It's a shame that reason isn't provided alongside God - then this impressive teaching technique might be of greater merit.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
|
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:49:55
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
ninja wrote:
matrix12345 wrote:
ninja wrote:
My question:
"I am not Christian. It is possible for me to be moral? Can I have a sense of 'right' and 'wrong'"?
Yes, you do. You were made in the image of God. Meaning you have the same will, mind, and emotions as God has and no animal has them. We KNOW what is right and wrong, but we tend to choose what WE want. Does that answer it ?
Sort of - yes. Thank you.
I would propose that God was made in the image of man, but from your previous responses there seems little point in calling this a debate - rather you repeating what your Church teacher has drummed into your poor little head.
Do not mock me. If you do want to mock me than mock me but do not bring my teacher into this. He is the most godly man I know and I admire and look up to him. And no. If God was made in the image of man than it would mean man came before God did. But since God came before man, it means that man was made in the image of God. Not the other way around. |
| |
|
|
| ZA mortal |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:51:24
|
Wanker
Posts: 592
Joined: 18.11.10
|
oh one more thing if you get in heaven don't be surprised if god dosen't look human. why? i want you to imagine a new animal just make one up an think about how it looks.
now that is your "image" of what it looks like.
oh and guy's watch out for the bible nuts. you know the kind that will fight you on every little thing in the bible and won't even try to understand your opinion. lol
Edited by ZA mortal on 09/07/2012 18:54:34
Don't bare the name if you can't play the game!
|
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:52:04
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
The Hat of Love wrote:
Your recital of propaganda is very impressive. You've been persuaded well. It's a shame that reason isn't provided alongside God - then this impressive teaching technique might be of greater merit.
I have not been "pursuaded". I have been told the truth. |
| |
|
|
| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:53:22
|
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
|
ZA mortal wrote:
oh one more thing if you get in heaven don't be surprised if god dosen't look human. why? i want you to imagine a new animal just make one up an think about how it looks.
now that is your "image" of what it it looks like.
oh and guy's watch out for the bible nuts. you know the kind that will fight you on every little thing in the bible and won't even try to understand your opinion. lol
I understand very well your opinions and the logic in your answers. Because I was there once......and i completely respect them. |
| |
|
|
| ZA mortal |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:58:27
|
Wanker
Posts: 592
Joined: 18.11.10
|
matrix12345 wrote:
ZA mortal wrote:
oh one more thing if you get in heaven don't be surprised if god dosen't look human. why? i want you to imagine a new animal just make one up an think about how it looks.
now that is your "image" of what it it looks like.
oh and guy's watch out for the bible nuts. you know the kind that will fight you on every little thing in the bible and won't even try to understand your opinion. lol
I understand very well your opinions and the logic in your answers. Because I was there once......and i completely respect them.
ahh very nice to know. then i wouldn't classifie you as a B-nut. yeah there have been times where i fear for my soul but i haven't got swallowed up by it.
I say i will live my life to the best of my abilitys and what ever happens after death i will accept my fate.
Don't bare the name if you can't play the game!
|
| |
|
|
| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:58:58
|
Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
|
matrix12345 wrote:
ninja wrote:
I would propose that God was made in the image of man, but from your previous responses there seems little point in calling this a debate - rather you repeating what your Church teacher has drummed into your poor little head.
Do not mock me. If you do want to mock me than mock me but do not bring my teacher into this. He is the most godly man I know and I admire and look up to him. And no. If God was made in the image of man than it would mean man came before God did. But since God came before man, it means that man was made in the image of God. Not the other way around.
I am not trying to mock you - I'm trying to help you to use reason. You will be exploited later in life if you simply believe what people say without questioning it. I'm sure your teacher believes what he/she is doing is right, and many of his/her pupils will go on to teach what they've 'learnt'. But you can take a responsibility for your own opinion.
On a side note, "If God was made in the image of man than it would mean man came before God did." - this is exactly what I think seems the more likely scenario. Obviously, if you've been convinced that God created man, this argument falls apart.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
| |
|
