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Debate 10: God
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/06/2012 12:16:07
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Hm, so the mystery colour could exist but why would we make the assumption that it does?
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| ninja |
Posted on 09/06/2012 12:18:39
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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Infra-red God? I like it.
I think I see your point of view. I'm intrigued, however, regarding the origins of your belief in this 'unseeable' presence. Is it a random inkling, like that feeling you get when you think someone's watching you but you turn around and they're not there?
To me, it seems most likely that someone invented the idea and convinced people to go along with it.
E: Also, we know that other 'colours' beyond the 'visible' spectrum exist because we've been able to measure like with wavelengths exceeding those which our eyes can pick up. Personally, I don't see an analogy for God. Is there a God-detector on the market that I should know about?
Edited by ninja on 09/06/2012 12:20:41
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| weeshuggy |
Posted on 09/06/2012 12:23:36
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Wanker
Posts: 785
Joined: 23.06.11
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well why make the assumption it wouldn't when there is every likelyhood that it does exist, just we aren't evoved enough to see it. If a mutation occurred that allowed a human to determine wavelengths outside the colour spectrum as light then it would be theoretically impossible to imagine what they would see. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/06/2012 12:31:07
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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But we can at least detect infra-red and such. We can't detect God.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| weeshuggy |
Posted on 09/06/2012 12:37:41
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Wanker
Posts: 785
Joined: 23.06.11
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To begin with lets not mock, it was just a simple way of me trying to explain my thoughts. Also how do always know there isn't someone lurking in the background you can't see. You don't. It is what you make of it.
as for my beliefs, I don't feel i need to explain them to you as it is clear you will do all wihin your power to not only ridicule and shoot them down, but pick everything out of context and use it to your own defence.
"Also, we know that other 'colours' beyond the 'visible' spectrum exist because we've been able to measure like with wavelengths exceeding those which our eyes can pick up. Personally, I don't see an analogy for God."
your reading to much into it yet again, it was just a simple analogy to explain thing exist that are beyond our comprehension. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/06/2012 13:22:24
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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it wasn't mocking, just evaluating.
I get the analogy, it's just that if there's a colour you can't see or detect then why would you believe in it? And why that particular colour and not any other undetectable colour? Why not every god?
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| weeshuggy |
Posted on 09/06/2012 13:33:30
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Wanker
Posts: 785
Joined: 23.06.11
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Infra-red God? I like it.
Is there a God-detector on the market that I should know about?
maybe not directly but yes that is mockery.
who's to say there aen't many gods ? i have no idea........... |
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| ninja |
Posted on 09/06/2012 16:52:32
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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Sorry if I came across as mocking. Of course I respect your beliefs to a certain extent, even if I believe they are unjustified. Seeing as this is supposed to be a debating thread, however, I thought it was appropriate to pick out aspects of what you say that I find unsatisfactory.
pick everything out of context and use it to your own defence.
This is sort-of what you're supposed to do in debates, try to twist other people's arguments to expose them. I don't think I took it out of context, rather I put it into the context of God.
Personally, I don't have a big problem in conceptualising spectra of light which aren't visible to me. I can hear a dog bark (without seeing one) and be fairly sure that there's a dog in close proximity. Of course, I take into account the possibility of a misjudgement in hearing or a recorded sound, but I have a strong basis for my belief.
well why make the assumption it wouldn't when there is every likelyhood that it does exist, just we aren't evoved enough to see it.
Why do you assume that the world continues to exist when you're not observing it?
Why do you assume that there isn't a purple spaghetti monster orbiting Mars?
Why do you assume that every other person in the world isn't a zombie or computer, acting purely on a complex pre-defined set of instructions?
These are all possibilities, they just seem unlikely.
You say there is "every likelyhood" that God exists? Can you justify this? Is it really likely - more likely than, say, a purple spaghetti monster orbiting Mars?
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 09/06/2012 22:51:38
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
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| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 16:56:05
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Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
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I know I'm not a ZA member and I'm not sure if I can post....but anywayz....
I am a true believer of God. I have faith and trust him in the good and the bad times. When I die, I want to hear 7 words when I am before God in my judgement..."Well done my good and faithful servant."
I was saved at the age of 7 but I didnt really dedicate my life for him until I was 13 (3 months ago). This is really the main reason I've changed.
And brick...to answer your question...
I am not a very good person to answer this...my Bible teacher would be so much better at explaining this but I'll try to explain it to you.
We are born sinners. We cannot help but sin. Its just in our nature and of course God knows that. Thats why Jesus Christ died for our sins, showing his love, grace, and mercy to us. There are actually 2 more rules that I know:
GOLDEN RULES:
#1: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.
#2 Love others as you love yourself
There might be more but I dont know. But these DO cover all the laws and rules of the world.
-PÕQ~Matrix |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/07/2012 17:02:32
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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ZA BrickSquad wrote:
These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
None of those commandments say I can't punch you in the face. And anyway, some people have to work on Sunday...
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 17:10:48
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Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
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The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
None of those commandments say I can't punch you in the face. And anyway, some people have to work on Sunday...
On the punching face, the golden rule #2 says "Love others as you love yourself". As for the keeping the sabbath...some ppl "mis-interpret" the command.
You need to learn that the sabbath was a condition of the "old" covenant between the Hebrews and God, and was even the sign of that covenant between them. You are not a party to this covenant. That covenant came to an end, and with its passing went the conditions that were unique to that covenant.
In Scripture, one could only keep the Passover if they were in the land of Israel. What then makes you believe you could keep the sabbath outside of Israel? What direction do you calculate the sabbath from Israel? If you live in America, and figure it going west, your sabbath is Saturday. If you figure it going east, paying attention to sunsets, you sabbath would be Friday.
The sabbath only worked for the Israelites who were living in Israel. God does not expect you to keep the conditions of a covenant He made with someone else. God does not deal with mankind illegally like that. |
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| ZoE305 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 17:29:10
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Wanker
Posts: 580
Joined: 16.04.11
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I think he's real that's all I have to say.
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 09/07/2012 17:32:44
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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matrix12345 wrote:
The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
None of those commandments say I can't punch you in the face. And anyway, some people have to work on Sunday...
On the punching face, the golden rule #2 says "Love others as you love yourself". As for the keeping the sabbath...some ppl "mis-interpret" the command.
You need to learn that the sabbath was a condition of the "old" covenant between the Hebrews and God, and was even the sign of that covenant between them. You are not a party to this covenant. That covenant came to an end, and with its passing went the conditions that were unique to that covenant.
In Scripture, one could only keep the Passover if they were in the land of Israel. What then makes you believe you could keep the sabbath outside of Israel? What direction do you calculate the sabbath from Israel? If you live in America, and figure it going west, your sabbath is Saturday. If you figure it going east, paying attention to sunsets, you sabbath would be Friday.
The sabbath only worked for the Israelites who were living in Israel. God does not expect you to keep the conditions of a covenant He made with someone else. God does not deal with mankind illegally like that.
If you'd read the question, Brick was asking about the Ten Commandments. Golden Rule #2 isn't one of those.
And whether I 'need to learn' about it is debatable, as I'm atheist.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 17:59:04
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Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
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The Hat of Love wrote:
matrix12345 wrote:
The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
None of those commandments say I can't punch you in the face. And anyway, some people have to work on Sunday...
On the punching face, the golden rule #2 says "Love others as you love yourself". As for the keeping the sabbath...some ppl "mis-interpret" the command.
You need to learn that the sabbath was a condition of the "old" covenant between the Hebrews and God, and was even the sign of that covenant between them. You are not a party to this covenant. That covenant came to an end, and with its passing went the conditions that were unique to that covenant.
In Scripture, one could only keep the Passover if they were in the land of Israel. What then makes you believe you could keep the sabbath outside of Israel? What direction do you calculate the sabbath from Israel? If you live in America, and figure it going west, your sabbath is Saturday. If you figure it going east, paying attention to sunsets, you sabbath would be Friday.
The sabbath only worked for the Israelites who were living in Israel. God does not expect you to keep the conditions of a covenant He made with someone else. God does not deal with mankind illegally like that.
If you'd read the question, Brick was asking about the Ten Commandments. Golden Rule #2 isn't one of those.
And whether I 'need to learn' about it is debatable, as I'm atheist.
for most ppl the 10 commandements r mis-interpret....the "do not kill" command" is also saying do not hurt and do not have thoughts of hurting of killing anyone |
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| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:02:53
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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ZA BrickSquad wrote:
These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
I'd say the first 4 are completely irrelevant for a perfect world. From my sceptical point of view, I would say that they have 'evolved' as a means of propagating and maintaining support of the religion.
6-9 are encompassed in the law, at least in the UK, and they're not really disputed, whether amongst religious circles or not, as a good guideline. They can be derived simply from the 'desire' to keep our species/community strong.
5-10 are less intuitive, and seem to stem from a higher level of sophistication. I would agree that following them would improve the world, but I cannot as of yet, pinpoint a cause for this attitude.
No, I don't believe that you can summarise "The 10 Steps for a Perfect World" like that - it's a much more complicated matter. As a general protocol, I'd go for something along the lines of "treat others and your environment with a level of respect and dignity that you yourself would expect to receive." Of course, you can pick out exceptions for any motto - perhaps a 'perfect' world doesn't exist.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:09:07
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Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
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ninja wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
These are the 10 Commandments:
1st Commandment: HAVE NO OTHER GODS
2nd Commandment: DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
3rd Commandment: DO NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
5th Commandment: HONOR YOUR PARENTS
6th Commandment: DO NOT KILL
7th Commandment: DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
8th Commandment: DO NOT STEAL
9th Commandment: DO NOT FALSELY ACCUSE
10th Commandment: DO NOT COVET
I have a question for you all.
If these were the only 10 laws in the world, would it be a perfect world or is there areas that these 10 laws do not cover of the list of bad things people do in today's society?
I'd say the first 4 are completely irrelevant for a perfect world. From my sceptical point of view, I would say that they have 'evolved' as a means of propagating and maintaining support of the religion.
6-9 are encompassed in the law, at least in the UK, and they're not really disputed, whether amongst religious circles or not, as a good guideline. They can be derived simply from the 'desire' to keep our species/community strong.
5-10 are less intuitive, and seem to stem from a higher level of sophistication. I would agree that following them would improve the world, but I cannot as of yet, pinpoint a cause for this attitude.
No, I don't believe that you can summarise "The 10 Steps for a Perfect World" like that - it's a much more complicated matter. As a general protocol, I'd go for something along the lines of "treat others and your environment with a level of respect and dignity that you yourself would expect to receive." Of course, you can pick out exceptions for any motto - perhaps a 'perfect' world doesn't exist.
All 10 commandments are equally important. There is only one thing needed to have a perfect world. Obey and live your life for God. That is all but since we are born sinners, that is IMPOSSIBLE. HOWEVER...I am waiting for the 2nd coming of Christ and although I am prtty sure he will come way after I die. There WILL be a perfect world when the 2nd coming of Christ occurs. Both heaven and earth will be merged together. Those who hav rebelled and rejected God will spend eturnalty in hell and those who have believed and had trust and faith in him will live in eturnalty with God in the new PERFECT world.
Edited by matrix12345 on 09/07/2012 18:09:57 |
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| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:10:13
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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matrix12345 wrote:
I know I'm not a ZA member and I'm not sure if I can post....but anywayz....
I am a true believer of God. I have faith and trust him in the good and the bad times. When I die, I want to hear 7 words when I am before God in my judgement..."Well done my good and faithful servant."
I was saved at the age of 7 but I didnt really dedicate my life for him until I was 13 (3 months ago). This is really the main reason I've changed.
Of course you can post.
Why do you believe in God?
matrix12345 wrote:
And brick...to answer your question...
I am not a very good person to answer this...my Bible teacher would be so much better at explaining this but I'll try to explain it to you.
We are born sinners. We cannot help but sin. Its just in our nature and of course God knows that. Thats why Jesus Christ died for our sins, showing his love, grace, and mercy to us. There are actually 2 more rules that I know:
GOLDEN RULES:
#1: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.
#2 Love others as you love yourself
There might be more but I dont know. But these DO cover all the laws and rules of the world.
I find the notion of being born a sinner somewhat ridiculous. A newly born baby has yet to experience the world outside the womb, and can therefore not be at all defined as a person. I suppose if you're a determinist you'd argue conversely, but surely that doesn't take away from the strange feeling of assigning a 'sin' to someone who has yet to even move.
Would you say that since I am not Christian that I am immoral?
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| matrix12345 |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:16:38
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Junior Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 26.08.12
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ninja wrote:
Why do you believe in God?
I find the notion of being born a sinner somewhat ridiculous. A newly born baby has yet to experience the world outside the womb, and can therefore not be at all defined as a person. I suppose if you're a determinist you'd argue conversely, but surely that doesn't take away from the strange feeling of assigning a 'sin' to someone who has yet to even move.
Would you say that since I am not Christian that I am immoral?
I believe in God because I have faith and trust in him. He has guided me through the horrids of life for 13 years and will continue to do so with his grace, mercy, and love.
And we are not born sinners ? Of course we are. Even a baby knows that crying will get someone come running to them. That is why they cry like 24/7. We ARE born sinners and will die, but we can receive eternal life through believing in God.
And I dont understand your last question.
Edited by matrix12345 on 09/07/2012 18:17:33 |
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| ninja |
Posted on 09/07/2012 18:16:57
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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matrix12345 wrote:
All 10 commandments are equally important. There is only one thing needed to have a perfect world. Obey and live your life for God. That is all but since we are born sinners, that is IMPOSSIBLE. HOWEVER...I am waiting for the 2nd coming of Christ and although I am prtty sure he will come way after I die. There WILL be a perfect world when the 2nd coming of Christ occurs. Both heaven and earth will be merged together. Those who hav rebelled and rejected God will spend eturnalty in hell and those who have believed and had trust and faith in him will live in eturnalty with God in the new PERFECT world.
An .... interesting ... viewpoint. 0.0
I fail to see how living your life for a being which may or may not exist can possibly lead to a perfect world. In fact, I would struggle to classify that as 'living' as such, since a lifetime devoted in such a way could well take away from the important things in life.
I am thoroughly confused by your words, however perhaps I'm not "interpreting" them in the correct way. I hope at least that you understand what you're living life for, and I encourage you not to spend your whole time worrying about what 'God thinks'. Do what you want, not what society expects of you.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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