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Debate 10: God
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| PirateKing |
Posted on 06/21/2012 12:57:56
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Numpty
Posts: 1128
Joined: 01.03.12
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the world is roughly 10,000 years old. no more then that. probably closer to 7 or 8. nd i have never seen a mountain move much less grow that tall. also the grand canyon is another example of the flood. how cold the colorado river carve a canyon that wide?? its not even a big river. nd some of the rock is basalt nd limestone. very hard rock. it could only have happened by a large body of water running off
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| ninja |
Posted on 06/21/2012 18:00:53
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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PirateKing wrote:
nd i have never seen a mountain move much less grow that tall.
Is this a joke? Of course you can't see mountains just shoot up in the air - it happens over long periods of time. That's like dismissing evolution because you don't see primates morphing into humans in a day (not that we evolved from primates living nowadays, we just shared a common ancestor). You've got to consider these changes over a much larger time scale - longer even than a lifespan.
Edited by ninja on 06/21/2012 18:01:27
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| Dudeman |
Posted on 06/21/2012 18:14:09
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Super Admin
Posts: 1277
Joined: 03.01.12
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*Cough* Ninja do you really believe we evolved from monkeys? *end cough*
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/21/2012 18:38:32
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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PirateKing wrote:
the world is roughly 10,000 years old. no more then that. probably closer to 7 or 8. nd i have never seen a mountain move much less grow that tall. also the grand canyon is another example of the flood. how cold the colorado river carve a canyon that wide?? its not even a big river. nd some of the rock is basalt nd limestone. very hard rock. it could only have happened by a large body of water running off
I don't know how you could think that the world has only existed for 10,000 years.
The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (4.54 × 109 years ± 1%). This age is based on evidence from radiometric age dating of meteorite material and is consistent with the ages of the oldest-known terrestrial and lunar samples. Following the scientific revolution and the development of radiometric age dating, measurements of lead in uranium-rich minerals showed that some were in excess of a billion years old.
The oldest such minerals analyzed to date – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – are at least 4.404 billion years old. Comparing the mass and luminosity of the Sun to the multitudes of other stars, it appears that the solar system cannot be much older than those rocks. Ca-Al-rich inclusions (inclusions rich in calcium and aluminium) – the oldest known solid constituents within meteorites that are formed within the solar system – are 4.567 billion years old, giving an age for the solar system and an upper limit for the age of Earth.
I get this just by Googling it. There is so much evidence for the world being so much older than 10k years that anyone who suggests that it is so young will just get odd looks.
The mountains Ninja already explained. The Colorado river has been running through that canyon for 17 million years. It's perfectly believable that it sculpted out that valley when you accept that the earth is in fact many billions of years older than the Bible says. Saying 'how did the Grand Canyon get there? how did clams get on top of this mountain chain? must be a flood' is so full of holes, especially when there are perfectly reasonable explanations for both. As has been mentioned, if Noah's Ark was real, the number of animals that exist... how did he fit them all on one ark, the dimensions of which are in the Bible?
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/21/2012 18:39:58
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Dudeman wrote:
*Cough* Ninja do you really believe we evolved from monkeys? *end cough*
Is that so hard to believe? It's very easy just to say 'we evolved from monkeys?! the world started with a big bang?! preposterous, scientists are lying!' Think about it and there's nothing surprising about it; it all makes perfect sense.
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| Phoenix |
Posted on 06/21/2012 18:40:24
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16.04.11
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Very carefully.
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| PirateKing |
Posted on 06/21/2012 19:59:58
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Numpty
Posts: 1128
Joined: 01.03.12
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ok if you want hard evidence. i'll give it. next time im on i'll have the verses ready for backing up my claims. nd back in noahs day we didnt have all the species we have now. there were the main ones. we didnt need 200 different types of cats just 1. same with all the rest. nd about the dating methods? they dated a rock from the mt saint helens eruption when it was 20 years old. the rock was from the dome so it wasnt old at all. they used radiometric dating nd the rock came up as millions plus years old. their dating methods are flawed
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 06/22/2012 00:24:15
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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PirateKing wrote:
ok if you want hard evidence. i'll give it. next time im on i'll have the verses ready for backing up my claims. nd back in noahs day we didnt have all the species we have now. there were the main ones. we didnt need 200 different types of cats just 1. same with all the rest. nd about the dating methods? they dated a rock from the mt saint helens eruption when it was 20 years old. the rock was from the dome so it wasnt old at all. they used radiometric dating nd the rock came up as millions plus years old. their dating methods are flawed
well to explain noahs ark, the ark was built to house a substantial number of animals (4 of every clean animal, 2 of every unclean animal) along with noah and his family. The only problem is the biological side.... eventually the animals would be so inbred that problems and complications are sure to destroy their species. The bible also says that everyting was created in 7 days. But what is time to god? meaningless. A day for him, can be like years for us. It is plausible that life is only 10000 years old, while the foundation (earth) is billions of years old.
also, i'm not a geologist, but if thats an igneous rock, then obviously the rock itself is only 20 years old due to the fact that lave is basically melted rock, and when that lava hardens and becomes rock.... |
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| ZA BlackAdder |
Posted on 06/22/2012 08:28:21
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Super Admin
Posts: 2419
Joined: 18.11.10
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if god is real why does he need ppl to worship him? does he need validation that he is so important? and im sure god would appreciate that i lived my life to my fullest and enjoyed it, not suffer every sunday trying to stay awake.
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/22/2012 10:13:55
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Good point, Drk. And if we have a thousand rocks that are 1000 years old and 999 of them come up as 1000 years old but one comes up as 20000 years old - well, that one is going to be mentioned in the 'Dating methods are flawed' report.
So Noah's Ark was, I'm guessing maybe 8,000 years ago by your clock? You're saying that all the cats that exist in the world today evolved from this one cat on the Ark in just 8,000 years? If animals evolve so quickly then why have we had the same species of cats for hundreds, thousands of years?
So I will dispute the fact that life might only be 10,000 years old because the fact is it's much older. My good old friend research brings up the following:
The earliest identified organisms were minute and relatively featureless, and their fossils look like small rods, which are very difficult to tell apart from structures that arise through abiotic physical processes. The oldest undisputed evidence of life on Earth, interpreted as fossilized bacteria, dates to 3 Ga. Other finds in rocks dated to about 3.5 Ga have been interpreted as bacteria, with geochemical evidence also seeming to show the presence of life 3.8 Ga. However these analyses were closely scrutinized, and non-biological processes were found which could produce all of the "signatures of life" that had been reported. While this does not prove that the structures found had a non-biological origin, they cannot be taken as clear evidence for the presence of life. Geochemical signatures from rocks deposited 3.4 Ga have been interpreted as evidence for life, although these statements have not been thoroughly examined by critics.
Ga, if you're wondering, means billions of years ago. You saw what it said: 'The oldest undisputed evidence of life on Earth, interpreted as fossilized bacteria, dates to 3 Ga.' 3,000,000 > 10,000. Not that I should really be have to be proving the age of the earth since it is a generally accepted truth.
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| ninja |
Posted on 06/24/2012 17:13:35
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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PirateKing wrote:
ok if you want hard evidence. i'll give it. next time im on i'll have the verses ready for backing up my claims. nd back in noahs day we didnt have all the species we have now. there were the main ones. we didnt need 200 different types of cats just 1. same with all the rest.
I'd be very interested to see how you propose to use fiction as evidence. Are you still planning to do this? When/if you do, please also provide actual evidence that isn't based on blind faith which unfortunate people happen to pick up in their childhood.
You didn't have all the species? Which ones did you have? There are estimated to be almost 9 million species on this planet: that's 9,000,000 species. Imagine counting to 9 million - that would take a long time. Then imagine collecting 9 million different animals - not to mention building a boat substantial enough to hold them all - and keeping them alive. Ridiculous is an understatement.
There's also the problem of micro-organisms which I've mentioned before. I haven't seen a reply to this. How would you find/identify/look after them?
It's a lovely piece of literature and makes a great story for children, but it's far from the truth.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| GrinReaper |
Posted on 06/27/2012 20:13:46
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Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 22.06.12
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So you guys believe that a big "bang" happened and magically placed earth in just the right spot so it wouldn't burn being to close to the sun or too cold being to close to far away from the sun...with the right amount of resources, water, and animals to sustain us? |
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| ninja |
Posted on 06/28/2012 03:20:17
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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Magically? No. Do you believe a supernatural being flicked his wrist causing the whole universe to pop into existence?
If conditions on Earth weren't stable for life, then life simply wouldn't have come about and we wouldn't be here discussing this. But the conditions were good. The universe is very very old and there are lots and lots of planets. It's hardly surprising that at some point in time there was a planet which was good for simple life to come about. From there evolution took its toll.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| ZA Bvigil |
Posted on 06/28/2012 03:28:21
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Admin
Posts: 2161
Joined: 15.11.10
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UNFORTUNATELY I MUST SPEAK LIKE BILLY MAYS BUT PLEASE IGNORE THE CAPS!!! NOW DO I BELIEVE THAT THE BIG BANG JUST HAPPENED OUT OF NOWHERE NO I DO NOT HOWEVER THE NOTION OF "GOD" IS JUST TO FAR OUT THERE FOR ME TO RECOGNIZE ITS POSSIBILITIES I REMIND YOU THAT JUST BECAUSE WE ARE ATHEIST DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE BELIEVE IN THE THEORIES SUCH AS THE STRING THEORY OR THE BIG BANG THEORY JUST THAT WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE THEORY OF GOD AND RELIGION IS JUST PREPOSTEROUS!!! BILLY MAYS OUT!!!
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/28/2012 12:11:34
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Yeah but like Ninja said, Grin, it's only logical that we're on a planet that's good for life because if it wasn't then we wouldn't be here. And it's not that there are enough resources to sustain is, it's that we've evolved to make the most of the resources that we have. If there weren't enough resources to sustain us we wouldn't be sustained and we'd die so again we wouldn't be here. It's simple logic.
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| GrinReaper |
Posted on 06/28/2012 12:38:26
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Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 22.06.12
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@Ninja
God doesn't need to flick his wrist to create things.
@Hat
How could you believe we evolved from monkeys? There isn't even any proof. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/28/2012 12:44:26
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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It's quite simple. Like explained above, you can't dismiss a theory with a simple 'that's ridiculous lol.' Yes, we did evolve from apes over many millions of years. We are primates, just advanced animals. The monkeys of today evolved from this same common ancestor as us.
We can track the evolution of humans through fossil evidence. Here's an article for you: http://en.wikiped..._evolution.
As for 'there isn't even proof,' well, there's a hell of a lot more proof for human evolution than there is for God, which is, last time I checked, next to none.
Edited by The Hat of Love on 06/28/2012 12:46:56
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| GrinReaper |
Posted on 06/28/2012 12:49:34
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Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 22.06.12
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There is a very small amount of fossil evidence that leads to evolution. I don't know why people are so hesitant to believe in God. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 06/28/2012 13:00:52
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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There probably would be a very small amount of evidence because very little evidence is going to be preserved, isn't it? It's enough though and if they aren't early ancestors of humans what are these pieces of evidence we keep finding?
People are hesitant to believe in God for the reasons that Ninja and I, among others, have said in the last 9 pages. We don't believe in God because we're not just going to believe and follow blindly without any evidence. Why would we believe in God?
And if you're going to accuse of us of having so little evidence, where is the evidence for God, please?
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| GrinReaper |
Posted on 06/28/2012 13:56:16
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Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 22.06.12
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You want evidence? My dad's back was hurting for years...God healed just a few months ago. |
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