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Rule Clarification
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| soulcyon |
Posted on 09/25/2012 12:41:18
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Senior Member
Posts: 301
Joined: 13.08.12
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Every ZA member I've talked to thus far keeps saying the same thing: "humans are not allowed to ladder, period"
The rules clearly state: "Humans are not allowed to stack or ladder in order to reach safer ground."
Laddering from bottom of carousel to top (instead of using teleport) - which is not considered "safer ground" - should be totally legitimate. I saw a couple of humans trying to attempt this, and they got kicked - which I personally thought was unjustified. I know in Wizard and Chillout there are a couple spots that cannot be reached without laddering, but those are clearly "safer" than anywhere else on the map.
Could a ZA leader please clarify this rule? Or if need be, change the rule so we can all agree on something. Perhaps we can mod the maps so its impossible to even REACH those certain spots? Then we don't have to worry about this rule, and humans can ladder to heaven for all we care (it's actually worse for humans to ladder without cause anyways  )
Edited by soulcyon on 09/25/2012 12:43:00 |
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| FC_SlimJim |
Posted on 09/25/2012 12:46:30
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Super Admin
Posts: 4725
Joined: 14.11.10
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if a human ladders to reach a place that is otherwise accessible to non-laddering humans and zombies i see no illegal move |
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| soulcyon |
Posted on 09/25/2012 13:00:36
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Senior Member
Posts: 301
Joined: 13.08.12
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Thanks slim, I'll be sure to spam everyone on xfire xD
loljk... but it would be nice if everybody was aware of this rule |
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| ZA BlackAdder |
Posted on 09/25/2012 13:04:58
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Super Admin
Posts: 2419
Joined: 18.11.10
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While it's not technically bad, when an admin sees someone laddering they aren't going to stop and think if it's okay or not, so it's easier to say no laddering at all.
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| soulcyon |
Posted on 09/25/2012 13:09:41
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Senior Member
Posts: 301
Joined: 13.08.12
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Wouldn't that just breed poor administration? I notice alot of people (most likely trolls) complaining about unjustified kicks/bans, and I think we should strive to be the best we can be - and shut those trolls down xD |
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| ZA BlackAdder |
Posted on 09/25/2012 13:24:28
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Super Admin
Posts: 2419
Joined: 18.11.10
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If they are trolls then why do we care what they day?
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| ninja |
Posted on 09/25/2012 13:24:58
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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If I saw someone laddering, regardless of situation, I'd tell them not to. I probably wouldn't kick if it was a place that was accessible by jumping.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| stunt1man |
Posted on 09/25/2012 13:27:09
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 2148
Joined: 20.02.12
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FC_SlimJim wrote:
if a human ladders to reach a place that is otherwise accessible to non-laddering humans and zombies i see no illegal move
that's what i was saying before. if you can reach without ladders, you should be allowed to get there with ladders. makes sense.
Halo PC Stunting Community - Rank-experienced/rcon holder
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| za heystarface |
Posted on 09/25/2012 14:59:57
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Admin
Posts: 6130
Joined: 20.11.10
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We don't discriminate the area humans are trying to reach. The reason for this is because it makes it easier to admin if the rule has no exceptions. Humans are not allowed to ladder PERIOD. If a human can get to the area without laddering, then they should get there without laddering. If they ladder and an admin kicks, it is 100% justified by the admin because we wrote the rule this way, so it should be followed this way.
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| SpartanJaz |
Posted on 09/25/2012 15:39:21
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Junior Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 13.08.12
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stunt1man wrote:
FC_SlimJim wrote:
if a human ladders to reach a place that is otherwise accessible to non-laddering humans and zombies i see no illegal move
that's what i was saying before. if you can reach without ladders, you should be allowed to get there with ladders. makes sense.
Doesn't make sense at all to me.
If you can get to a location without laddering, why not get there without laddering?
If it's too difficult for you to do so, then that must mean that it could be almost impossible for most zombies to get to the location. This means that you will be in a location that I would personally consider too safe and would make the game extremely dull for all other players.
But basically, it comes down to: If you're insistent that you can get to a location without laddering, then what is your justification for getting there with laddering? Why not just get there by without laddering if you're certain that you can?
So uh... basically I agree with Star. :/
Edited by SpartanJaz on 09/25/2012 15:45:53 |
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| FC_SlimJim |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:04:57
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Super Admin
Posts: 4725
Joined: 14.11.10
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well there is a strategic merit to this idea.
lets say the zombs had all of the tele's to the upper floor on derelict blocked, this would allow the humans to move around the blockade. since the zombs and humans both have a way to reach the upper, albeit diff paths, its a valid strategy and therefore argument that it should be legal given the nature of the fact that laddering is against the rules to prevent people for reaching areas the other team cant also obtain w/o laddering. |
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| stunt1man |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:17:22
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 2148
Joined: 20.02.12
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SpartanJaz wrote:
stunt1man wrote:
FC_SlimJim wrote:
if a human ladders to reach a place that is otherwise accessible to non-laddering humans and zombies i see no illegal move
that's what i was saying before. if you can reach without ladders, you should be allowed to get there with ladders. makes sense.
Doesn't make sense at all to me.
If you can get to a location without laddering, why not get there without laddering?
If it's too difficult for you to do so, then that must mean that it could be almost impossible for most zombies to get to the location. This means that you will be in a location that I would personally consider too safe and would make the game extremely dull for all other players.
But basically, it comes down to: If you're insistent that you can get to a location without laddering, then what is your justification for getting there with laddering? Why not just get there by without laddering if you're certain that you can?
So uh... basically I agree with Star. :/
ok here we go jaz.
my justification is from the admin point of view rather than players point of view. this whole thread is about that one place in carousel, and we are spending too much time discussion for that one particular place in carousel. there was already a thread for this and some leaders already clarified that no laddering at all. since you made another thread i ha to put my views as well.
first of all, you only know that someone went up there by laddering and not by themselves if you see it with your own eyes. otherwise it's impossible to tell how they made it up there.
if someone already made it up there by laddering and an admin didn't see it then it's ok? then the next player tries to get up there by laddering and an admin says don't ladder to get there, but he will tell you the other guy did.
it's same as camping behind the tele by zombies in ch-iron which we seem to ignore, so we should be able to ignore this one as well, since this the probably the only place to worry about on all map selection for laddering. i don't think there is any other place we have with laddering issues except this one. this one can be made into exception.
I am not trying to argue with star or the leaders, i am just telling Jaz since he wanted my justification.
Halo PC Stunting Community - Rank-experienced/rcon holder
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| ZA Buckshot |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:25:18
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I got a big blue star for posting. i must be special
Posts: 1778
Joined: 15.11.10
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FC_SlimJim wrote:
well there is a strategic merit to this idea.
lets say the zombs had all of the tele's to the upper floor on derelict blocked, this would allow the humans to move around the blockade. since the zombs and humans both have a way to reach the upper, albeit diff paths, its a valid strategy and therefore argument that it should be legal given the nature of the fact that laddering is against the rules to prevent people for reaching areas the other team cant also obtain w/o laddering.
But this scenario shouldn't be allowed by the admins to take place, because by our rules, blocking the or camping the teleporters is illegal.
As far as the laddering in general goes, I'm with Star. No laddering by humans, ever, for any reason, under any circumstance. If you can get there without laddering, then do it. If not, then obviously you shouldn't be there.
 
 
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| FC_SlimJim |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:28:04
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Super Admin
Posts: 4725
Joined: 14.11.10
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ZA Buckshot wrote:
FC_SlimJim wrote:
well there is a strategic merit to this idea.
lets say the zombs had all of the tele's to the upper floor on derelict blocked, this would allow the humans to move around the blockade. since the zombs and humans both have a way to reach the upper, albeit diff paths, its a valid strategy and therefore argument that it should be legal given the nature of the fact that laddering is against the rules to prevent people for reaching areas the other team cant also obtain w/o laddering.
But this scenario shouldn't be allowed by the admins to take place, because by our rules, blocking the or camping the teleporters is illegal.
As far as the laddering in general goes, I'm with Star. No laddering by humans, ever, for any reason, under any circumstance. If you can get there without laddering, then do it. If not, then obviously you shouldn't be there.
im not referring to a physical block. if i see a pile of zombs swarming near the ports im not heading there. |
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| JJX5 |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:28:12
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Numpty
Posts: 1350
Joined: 11.03.12
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I agree with buck & star because if you allow that, then they might start laddering for no reason and trolls are getting smarter so im sure they could figure out how to block by laddering, there should just be no laddering for human no matter where period
HotCoco is mean to ocelots.
I will not accept acts of such douchebagery ~~~
i am a troll nice to meet you 
QQ more, so i can float on your tears badkid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgDkwsVDn8 |
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| za heystarface |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:36:50
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Admin
Posts: 6130
Joined: 20.11.10
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Right. So for instance, on Carousel we have that ledge that only experienced crouch-jumpers can get to. If you wanna get there legit, then practice. If you can't, then you don't deserve to be there. LOL!
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| JJX5 |
Posted on 09/25/2012 16:41:10
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Numpty
Posts: 1350
Joined: 11.03.12
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za heystarface wrote:
Right. So for instance, on Carousel we have that ledge that only experienced crouch-jumpers can get to. If you wanna get there legit, then practice. If you can't, then you don't deserve to be there. LOL!
HotCoco is mean to ocelots.
I will not accept acts of such douchebagery ~~~
i am a troll nice to meet you
QQ more, so i can float on your tears badkid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgDkwsVDn8 |
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| Carnage |
Posted on 09/25/2012 17:52:42
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Super Admin
Posts: 4245
Joined: 28.09.11
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We have played panics in the classic server where humans ladder on each other in a straight up tower, so I don't see the big deal about just a tower out in the middle of say bloodgulch. the zombies can still reach them. if they want to kill the human on the top of the stack the zombies will just have to play human killing jenga to get to him.
"Hey guys, I just bought this thing called a sight ward...so it's GG." - MasterA in League of Legends
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| Vulture |
Posted on 09/25/2012 18:00:41
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Newbie
Posts: 0
Joined: 25.08.12
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Zombies can actually jump over that one spot in Derelict, same with humans without jetpacking. So I agree about places where it's reachable for both humans and zombies like that should be allowed which does not involve in jetpacking. But let's say something like jetpacking top of the windows on Wizard or high above of the mountains near the bases on Ice Fields should never be allowed.
 Proud to be in the Jajaja group! |
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| MasterA |
Posted on 09/25/2012 18:03:37
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Super Admin
Posts: 2582
Joined: 21.07.11
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I get what slim means from strategic point of view, and if ppl are laddering to spots that they can get to themselves not a totally big deal. I don't care either way honestly. Also stuntman is right too, the only spot that the humans regularly ladder to that they can get to themselves is that ledge on caro.
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